User talk:EGGS/Archive 5

Grand Order
Hello EGGS

Work is progressing on Grand Order. More of the tables are close to template-ready level. I was going to put in sections for certain Singularities resulting from certain FGO events. Do you have any preferences as to where they are put?

I was checking for references earlier for Camelot's Setting information. I haven't been able to find the page on Nasu's blog which was the source given for the background information, so I might have to check the individual chapter summaries for references.

Inept Wiki User (talk) 11:34, August 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Events can probably just go in a secondary section. If you need the English version, you can find it here. EGGS (talk) 23:45, August 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * OK. With regards to the events, how about putting them under 'Singularities (Secondary)', with 'Singularities' or 'Singularities (Primary)' for the main ones and a Singularities anchor under the first? (also, EoR:EX to Secondary?)
 * That version was the one I was using to construct Camelot's Setting section, however I haven't yet been able to reach the blog page which it was translated from.
 * Also, what is your opinion regarding this move:, ?
 * Inept Wiki User (talk) 11:18, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably just "Other singularities" would be fine to differentiate them. Nasu's blog is all screwed up in going back to older pages. You might need to use something like the Wayback Machine. I would say that the info should be on both of those pages. We can probably scrap the nihongo templates on the FGO page and just link to the singularity sections though. EGGS (talk) 23:03, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Understood. The anchors are in place for the links. With regards to the version on the FGO page, would you like the previous stuff just with the Nihongo templates removed or a small condensed paragraph listing the primary singularities? Inept Wiki User (talk) 20:25, August 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, basically the same thing without the templates. EGGS (talk) 23:45, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Quick question regarding events. Among this list, are there any non-singularity ones? Inept Wiki User (talk) 23:49, August 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * You'd have to go through each individually to check. They widely vary. I think Prisma is a Reality Marble, same with the Bunyan event. EGGS (talk) 14:24, August 12, 2017 (UTC)

Affiliation
Heya! I'm Otaku, an Admin on Type Moon Fate Fanon (http://tmfatefanon.wikia.com/wiki/Type-Moon_Fate_Fanon_Wiki). I was wondering if our two wiki's could become Affiliates? Fate Fanon could use advertisement to increase user count, and it would make it easier for people to find. Cya! Otakuknight 79 (talk) 00:48, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess. EGGS (talk) 01:23, August 22, 2017 (UTC)

Sequence Morgan > Secace Morgan
You know that redirect page for Sequence Morgan? Can you rename it to Secace Morgan? I can't change it and an admin is required to do that. Let me know if you did it!

N/A 01:20, August 22, 2017 (UTC)Clyton
 * See Secace Morgan EGGS (talk) 01:23, August 22, 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks! For that one, can you somehow remove the anti-unit and A rank NP categories since that was mistakenly labelled?
 * N/A 01:27, August 22, 2017 (UTC)Clyton
 * It looks like it might be both? I think the profile has one and the in-game NP status has a different one. No clue if that is mistake, or if one is the gun itself and the other is the combo attack? EGGS (talk) 01:33, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh ok I see I see. Then yeah, even then you should remove it as that's about Secace Morgan. I'll put in the Anti-Unit/A rank for Secace since that's what it is referring to.
 * N/A 01:36, August 22, 2017 (UTC)Clyton

Demons
Hey EGGS. I was just wondering if anyone's thinking about doing something about using "Ma" for 魔 on the Demons page. 魔 is kind of a wide concept in a lot of TM works so I think it at least deserves its own English word. Zodiac21 (talk) 13:52, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, not really sure how to handle the whole demon thing. It's so convoluted. They're not really the same thing, but do you think designating one kind as demon and one kind as devil might help? The whole page really needs to be nuked and done over from scratch. EGGS (talk) 19:01, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * I actually had that done before and changed 魔 to demon and 悪魔 to devil (as it is in F/HA iirc) but Fallacies had a problem with it and changed it all back. Maybe we should just change 魔 to something like "Fiend" since in terms of actual Japanese-to-English translation, 悪魔 to demon is correct and "devil" in English is almost always used in the singular case. Zodiac21 (talk) 03:40, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * That might fit. Certainly better than everything being called demon and way better than leaving it untranslated. EGGS (talk) 02:38, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * Just continuing this since there hasn't been a clear setup and I really don't think Aberration has anything to do with 魔, maybe we can make 魔 "demon" and make 悪魔 "daemon," since this seems to be the direction that FGO NA's translation is going for, with that one heart-giving enemy being named "Daemon". It might lessen confusion for FGO players too. Someone already talked about it in the Talk page but it was shot down because 電脳魔 was already in place as "Cyber-Daemon" but that's still separate from 魔 as much as 魔法 or 魔術 are. Translating it the other way around will probably work too. Zodiac21 (talk) 22:18, October 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd say that seems like a good solution. It's definitely better than "Aberration." EGGS (talk) 23:14, October 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, it's done. Can I ask you to delete the "Aberration" Page since it's been renamed? I just copied the info into the redirect page for "Demon" so the "Aberration" page can go. Zodiac21 (talk) 20:29, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

So, about those portable infoboxes ...
Hey hey :)

I'm a part of the Community Technical team here at FANDOM—and one of the co-sponsors of the Vanguard team. Last year, a couple of our members dropped by to help you with the conversion of your infoboxes from non-portable wikitext to portable XML.

I wanted to touch bases with you again today to see if we could get the process restarted. Since it's been about a year now, maybe we could begin by examining a few changes I made to Flightmare's designs from back then. (I also added a little code to your MediaWiki:Wikia.css in order to make MediaWiki pages and pre text in general show up a bit better on a black background. It was impossible to read parts of MediaWiki pages, since they have were displaying, on some lines, black text on a black background.)

If you go to User:CzechOut/Test, you'll see the current state of comparison between the two boxes.

While I've read your comments from 2016, maybe a fresh eye and a new round of comments would be helpful here in 2017. So let me just start with new questions.

How far off are we from what you'd like to see? What specific things can we do with the PI to help your community? -- CzechOut 21:04, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * If there is a way, I would like to integrate the Servant parameters sections, but I believe they said that wouldn't be feasible last year. Don't know if anything has changed since then. Some pages already use Template:Character2. I'm not sure how different it is from your version. Also, if you're familiar with templates, Template:WPlink has very weird spacing on mobile view. Any idea why? EGGS (talk) 22:12, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll take a look at the Servants' parameters sections with fresh eyes. No promises that a new solution will be forthcoming, but I'll certainly look over the next few days.


 * As for WPlink, the problem was that it was misclassified. A "context-link" is something like Main -- where you intend for there to be a little space before and after a single line of text. WPlink is meant to be an inline template, producing text that's integrated into a sentence. So I changed it to "Citation or reference", purged the page I was looking at, and everything snapped back into place. It may take up to 24 hours for all transclusions of WPlink to work properly, for caching reasons.


 * You may find it helpful to read community:Help:Template types to better understand how all the classifications work in Mercury. After all, template classification is done solely for the benefit of mobile devices. Your choice of template type makes no difference to your desktop view at all. -- CzechOut 23:39, August 28, 2017 (UTC)

Text size increase
Any idea why the Text Size on the Noble Phantasm Pages for the names and titles in the name box suddenly got larger so the long titles no longer fit? Zahadrin (talk) 00:35, August 30, 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably recent changes by the person in the section above. Might just be able to add a smaller secondary header instead of putting it all in the main one. EGGS (talk) 19:44, August 31, 2017 (UTC)

Minor Stuff
Hello EGGS

With regards to the character infoboxes, a number of them which have images under tabs are not displaying them on this end. Are they not displaying on your end as well?

Inept Wiki User (talk) 14:16, September 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * Which pages are you not seeing them on? EGGS (talk) 19:57, September 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * It depends on which browser you are using; with Internet Explorer, images are missing and not appearing. Whereas google chrome seems fine. Nikonu (talk) 21:11, September 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * It would seem that was the case. Inept Wiki User (talk) 19:34, September 16, 2017 (UTC)

Page Images Not Working
Images that display the Servants are no longer functioning. Might you know the reason for this? Zahadrin (talk) 21:31, September 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks to be Tabber. If it's on the Wikia side of things, I honestly have no clue how to fix it. It would need to be completely revamped page by page. EGGS (talk) 00:27, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * The Noble Phantasms Pages seem to be fine. Maybe if we replicate their Image Displays are written out, that'd possibly fix it. Zahadrin (talk) 02:30, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like it should be fixed now per Wikia's advice. EGGS (talk) 19:57, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I'll try to be more careful.

I'm sorry sir. --Young-Jah (talk) 19:18, September 27, 2017 (UTC)

What defines "Servant"?
On Beasts specifically. Beasts aren't summoned, have no masters (usually), and don't have to be Heroic Spirits or Divine Spirits. What keeps them classified in this category?
 * Beast VI is definitely Manaka's Servant. That's really enough for it. They have all the particulars of Servants. It's a class, which is something unique to Servants. They're just beings of a higher order like Grand Servants that aren't part of the man-made HGW system. EGGS (talk) 02:39, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

Unified Language
Just so you know, the reversion from earlier was a response to a slight disagreement between two of the other users:, , 86.133.92.156 11:31, October 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, didn't notice. Guess I'll revert and they can work it out. EGGS (talk) 13:00, October 11, 2017 (UTC)

Link Changing Based on Renaming
Hey! So I remember when you renamed all the FSF Servants to False/True (Class), every link was also changed automatically. Do you know how to do that or was it you manually changing every single one?

N/A 22:12, October 17, 2017 (UTC)Clyton
 * I went through manually. If you go to the bottom of the page, you can click the "What links here" to see all pages that use that link. When switching links, the first thing you want to do is find any templates like the character template and change it there first. Otherwise it will just show it as present on every page. If you download Auto Wiki Browser from Wikipedia, you can semi-automatically change links by loading all pages on the site one at a time. It automatically applies changes as per a template of instructions, and all you need to do is press OK for each page. The only reason I don't use it is because it just won't work with my computer for some reason. EGGS (talk) 22:16, October 17, 2017 (UTC)


 * Hmmm how about a method where if I type something specific, it will link me to the page with a different name. For example, what I was thinking for Japanese Servants with the accents in their name is putting the actual Japanese name with the accents as the title of the Servant's page, but then every single word that uses a the name without the accents will automatically link it to that page. So let's say Assassin (Fate/Grand Order - Katō Danzō) is the title, but if someone links Assassin (Fate/Grand Order - Kato Danzo) or   Assassin (Fate/Grand Order - Katou Danzou), it will still go to that page. The reason I'm doing this because when I tried putting the normal named links in the NP infoboxes, it will be a broken link despite already putting a redirect for those cases.
 * N/A 22:32, October 17, 2017 (UTC)Clyton


 * Could you show me a case of what you're talking about? You can create a redirect for any alternate means of spelling and always use that. EGGS (talk) 22:39, October 17, 2017 (UTC)


 * No worries about that anymore. I have another inquiry, can you add a "Source" info for the servant templates? For example, I mean King Arthur's source being "Arthurian Legends". I think it's pretty relevant and since all the FGO profiles are having them as well as one's place of origin, I think we should implement it. I can fill them all out.
 * N/A 04:00, October 24, 2017 (UTC)Clyton
 * We need to switch to the portable infoboxes eventually, so let me try putting together a new style of infobox for Servants if I can. Also, do you sign with ~ or something else? Your timestamp seems to come out weirdly. EGGS (talk) 18:55, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

ServantBottom
More collapsibility is indeed possible. But here's the key. For collapsibility to work you must have a header. A lot of the lines you've created in ServantBottom don't have a header, so asking them to be collapsed isn't going to work.

On the left you'll find my modified version of your template, which will demonstrate how much more of the template can be collapsed without changing how the template is currently set up.
 * CzechServantBottom


 * ServantBottom

I think I've collapsed the groups the way you wanted, but I'm totally unfamiliar with Type:Moon and will need you to obviously double check the content. Lemme know if you have any other questions! -- CzechOut 20:24, October 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Check out the way CzechServantBottom behaves now. Is that the level of compression you were looking for?


 * I'm not quite sure what you mean by your final sentence. Could you possibly rephrase or point me in the direction of an infobox that currently behaves the way you want it to? By "it" do you mean simply combining ServantTop and ServantBottom into one template? If so, that's unproblematic.


 * If you want to have the option of putting multiple instances of ServantBottom together into one template, the only way I can think of doing that is by redefining all the variables. So let's say you had the potential to have as many as four instances of ServantBottom. You'd have to have something like skill-a-1, skill-b-1, skill-c-1, skill-d-1, where these variables represent the first skill of boxes a through d.


 * I might be completely misunderstading you, though, so do please set me straight! -- CzechOut 21:57, October 25, 2017 (UTC)


 * To my mind, this is a problematic statement:


 * I would like it to stylistically look like all of the templates share the same frame, without actually needing them to be part of the same template.


 * I don't immediately know of a way to make that happen. Even with wikitext boxes, that would be a tall order.


 * Do you have an example of this now, with your current wikitext infoboxes? It's posssible I'm just not quite understanding what you're saying.], so a visual aide would be useful. :) -- CzechOut 22:47, October 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * I've played around with it for a bit on my test wiki, and I don't really think having the Top and Bottom templates within one single infoboxis terribly feasible. You could I suppose change the variable names so that you ended up with 100+ variables, but you'd have to then change variables on each individual page. That would take some work, and achieve only a marginal stylistic victory. If you don't do that, what's gonna happen is that you'll only get one value for each variable, and that value will be repeated for each of the servant's masters. Literally putting ServantBottom on the page for each master is kinda your only option to preserve the data, unless you're willing to add a lot of variables.


 * So I think it's easiest just to have separate templates without a unifying border, particularly since there aren't that many pages with multiple masters. And on those pages with multples, to my eye, it actually looks pretty cool to have separate(d) templates. Particularly on a black-backgrounded wiki like this one. And it's completely understandable on mobile devices. -- CzechOut 00:48, October 26, 2017 (UTC)

New Servant Template
Hey, so a problem I found is that when putting in the Skill names, it won't create a hyperlink that will automatically go to the named section in the Skill page like the old Servant template. Is there anyway to implement it again?

N/A 19:02, October 27, 2017 (UTC) Clyton
 * Looks like that might not be possible with portable infoboxes. I'll look into it a bit more though. EGGS (talk) 19:36, October 27, 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion for displaying "irregular" or non-GO classes in the Servant template
I've been browsing the wiki and I've noticed that it looks kinda off how "irregular classes" (such as Arcueid's "Funny Vamp" or Shiki's Monster) or actual classes who haven't appeared in GO (such as Savior) appear as just written word next to the other classes being displayed as the GO icons. I was wondering if, even as a placeholder, it'd be possible to display these "non-classes" (and Savior) using the question mark icon used in GO for the Demon Pillars or when there are too many Servant types to display in the preview? Would that work to at least tidy things up?--Otherarrow (talk) 18:03, November 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've done that for at least one page, so that would be fine. I have no idea what the filename for it is, or which page I used it on though. EGGS (talk) 18:36, November 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Found it on Hijikata: Unknown.png . EGGS (talk) 18:39, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Infoboxes
Heya :) Just wondering if there was anything I could do to help you approve your final portable infoboxes. The work we did a few weeks ago doesn't seem to have actually been implemented, so I wonder what we need to do to get it online. And I'm wondering if you need anything as far as Character is concerned. I'm not sure if you haven't tackled that yet because you are planning on phasing out that template, or just because you wanted to get Servant working properly first. -- CzechOut 18:14, November 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we have Template:Character2 to switch everything over. Once all the Servants are done, then AWB or a bot can be used to mass switch most of the others over. I think the only other thing that would need to be dealt with some page's infobox images, which I don't think are all fully compatible with portable. EGGS (talk) 18:36, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Hello there, I'm new here. So it's nice to get to know all admins and whatnot. Anyway, I hope I'm not too much trouble at all, anyway again, it's nice to know you. Also, at the moment I don't really any need help with anything. Although I do have a small request, If it's not too much trouble, I was wondering if you or any other admin can possible put in the addition of "Faye Mata" as Astolfo's English VA for Fate/Apocrypha in his bio, again if it's not too much trouble.

Thanks and Nice to be here.

User Talk:MasterAdventZero

Duplicate Servants
Hello there! Sorry for the trouble, this has been something that's been bothering me but a recent conversation on the forums brought it up again, but what is a measuring stick to say that an incarnation of a character isn't the "same" as a prior incarnation? I noticed, for example, you merged the EXTRA incarnations of Cu Chulainn and Karna with their "normal" counterparts but kept separate EXTRA Gilgamesh or the other Cu Chulainn variants which even GO makes clear are the same "character" just in a different form. Where do we draw the line and say "yes, these count as two different characters for wiki purposes" or "no, these are the same character"? For characters like the two Alteras or EMIYA and Nameless, we have explict confirmation that they are different 'people' but for the different forms of, say, Gilgamesh, Karna, Cu Chulainn, it seems the line distinguishing different versions is a lot more blurred.

TL;DR: Should we treat separate appearances of the same Heroic Spirit as the same person unless explicitly stated otherwise (and thus cover them on the same page) or treat them separately by summoning, class, etc? I'd be fine with either, but as it is I feel it's kinda inconsistent.--Otherarrow (talk) 20:31, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Cu, Karna and FSF Gil were initially split out because those were really the first cases of the same Servant being in multiple HGWs, not sharing memories with their other incarnations. As we have since increased the number of series and wars, that distinction is now fairly pointless. Saber in FGO/Labyrinth/Extella is about as different to FSN Saber as Extra Karna is to Apo Karna. They are the same core character with the same background, the only real difference being their sets of memories. Going down that rabbit hole of splitting them by war now would be a nightmare. Gil is just a special case in my eyes because of how different each version of him is due to how Nasu has vastly developed the character. His interactions with Enkidu in strange fake affect him greatly enough that it affects his whole outlook on the war. His page is also massive as it is, so merging them would just make it even more bloated. EGGS (talk) 21:14, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * I can understand that, and I agree the distinction is fairly pointless. I'd argue that any version of a character should probably be treated as the 'same' as long as they are the same core character and there isn't something radically altering this fact. For example, I'll argue that we should probably merge all of the Cu Chulainns except for Cu Alter on the basis that they are all presented as the same person in GO (with Proto Cu's profile even going out of it's way to explain how he 'fits' with the Cu Chulainn we know; he's basically Cu Chulainn Lily), but on the other hand we should keep the Prototype version of King Arthur and Lancer Artoria separate from Saber Artoria due to the narrative presenting the three as basically three mutually exclusive 'people' who all have the 'existence' of King Arthur (at least, from what I can tell). Does that make any sense?
 * Gilgamesh (and even Artoria to be fair) honestly does seem like a beast to handle if only because yes they are constantly used and their characterizations can differ. I'd be fine with keeping, say, all the different Gilgameshs separate solely to prevent the resulting page from being lag-causingly huge or anything.--Otherarrow (talk) 21:46, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Different versions of different Servants are all treated as separate aspects of each other. They can actively interact in FGO, and they have different roles. It's a bit different than the seasonal variations, as you almost never see those variations outside of the seasonal events or interacting with their "regular" selves unless it is a fully different character like Jeanne Lily. Most are different enough that combining them would make it a bit of a cluster. Caster Cu is not as different to Lancer Cu as Saber Alter is to Saber, but each is still a separate aspect of the Heroic Spirit. The only real section they share is their basic history. The only real case I'm considering is Li Shuwen, one page for young and one page for old, because his Lancer self and Assassin self are really the same exact character sans spear. If the Last Encore version is a Berserker the whole time, that would be five pages on Li Shuwen, and that would just be silly. EGGS (talk) 21:58, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that, at least in the material translated so far, GO goes out of its way to never use multiple versions of the same Servant in the same story scenario unless there is some clear distinction between them (such as Jeanne Alter being a clone and not the real Jeanne, or Saber Gilles not being a Servant but the 'real' Gilles who lived in the era), so it seems we are arguing about "maybes" in this case and that seems kinda iffy to me.
 * I'd argue that Caster Cu is identical in case to Saber Bride as you explained before, as the narrative itself treats him as the same person as Lancer and not just another "aspect" of the character (he even complains in the Fuyuki singularity about his sudden change to Caster and how he wishes he was a Lancer again), so he's arguably a special case. The rest...I'll give you, though I'd argue most of them are so minor and underutilized and revolve so much around their base character (such as Alexander being paired with El Melloi II and his appearance being a call back to a exchange in Extella about Iskander) that keeping them separate removes important context from their characters I feel.
 * EDIT:Unless you meant something like Bathory interacting with Carmilla but honestly the two are so different I forget they are suppose to be the same person sometimes. It's still a point against my point, but hrm (I'd argue it'd be foolish to merge those two anyway)--Otherarrow (talk) 22:59, December 28, 2017 (UTC)

Naming Order
I was just wondering about some of the names for heroic spirits from Asia. Since the western order is used for Japanese characters in the modern era such as Shiro Emiya, Rin Tosaka, Sakura Mato, etc., if that should also be the case for some servants as well such as Sasaki Kojiro being Kojiro Sasaki or Fuma Kotaro being Kotaro Fuma. Although I not certain about characters such as Sakata Kintoki or Tawara Tota since their names are a bit longer with Sakata no Kintoki and Tawara no Tota respectively with the "no" in their names making it kind of confusing for their order.

Vincent Dawn (talk) 22:48, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * I generally go with what Wikipedia goes with for names. There is some kind of academic thing where everyone of a certain historical age is kept in Japanese order. Not sure exactly why offhand. EGGS (talk) 22:56, December 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, just asking. Vincent Dawn (talk) 23:34, December 28, 2017 (UTC)

Lost Belts
Hello EGGS

With regards to the Lost Belts, I was planning to put information on the Grand Order page under Origin and a new section. Is this OK with you? Also, with space or without?

Inept Wiki User (talk) 14:19, January 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would be the best place for them. Though we'll probably want to create a page on the "Lostbelt" itself as a concept. EGGS (talk) 14:43, January 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * OK. Do you want the term without a space? Inept Wiki User (talk) 14:45, January 1, 2018 (UTC)