Talk:Servant

It's, they cannot be affected by normal interference, not they are no interference to the world.

I'm sorry. You translated this completely wrong. The mana reference is that they can pass through "inorganic objects that aren't dense with mana". The mana reference has nothing to do with their energy requirements.


 * I have no idea why I went on decreasing and need for an adjective ;_; Thanks. If you notice other mistakes like that, I'll fix them ASAP. Byakko 15:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Assassin
From what I gather, was a historical figure and members of his group were called. Should the link perhaps be changed? --Koveras Alvane 10:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Change what? It's him indeed, but in Nasuverse version of Hassan i Sabbah, the name was passed down between the various leaders of the clan. There's something like, what, 17 or 18 different people with the same name. "Assassin" is always one of those 18 Hassans. The one in Fate/Zero is only one Hassan, but that particular Hassan has a crapton of different personnalities with different skills, and his Noble Phantasm allows him to give a body to each of these personnalities. So in the end, we know it's one of the Hassans, but it's still a little tough to pinpoint it, so it's just left as "one of the Hassans". Is it clearer ? What link do you want to change ?
 * Edit - er, I think you posted that question before I edited it. Well, I fixed it already earlier today :P (added the one we see in F/HA too) Byakko 23:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see now. ^^; Could you please edit the Assassin article to include your explanation, as well? --Koveras Alvane 23:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Berserker
Is Berserker's insanity in FSN a prerequisite of his class or just a consequence of Ilya's treatment of him? Wikipedia seems to contradict itself in this point... --Koveras Alvane 23:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The Mad Enhancement is an ability that can be applied to the Servant (it would seem both the Master and/or the Servant can chose to enable it). Ability restricted to the Berserker class. By default, it's not activated. Illya activates it herself on Herakles. Zero's Berserker seems to have chosen to activate it by himself... Well, I don't think it's said, but I don't know why/if Kariya would chose to use it permanently if he's already strong as he seems to be, considering it's eating him even faster. Byakko 13:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. :) --Koveras Alvane 15:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Servant vs. Heroic Spirit
Other articles seem to differentiate strictly between the terms "Servant" and "Heroic Spirit", and as far as I gather, not all Heroic Spirits can become Servants and not all Servants are necessarily Heroic Spirits. Can this be reflected somewhere in this article? --Koveras Alvane 12:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Servants and Heroic Spirits are differentiated because Servants are Heroic Spirits, but Heroic Spirits aren't necessarily Servants.


 * Servants are ONLY for the Heaven's Feel. It's something that was *invented* by Makiri Zouken and Tohsaka Nagato.


 * Servants are always Heroic Spirits - as in, humans (or part-humans) that became legendary and are remembered by the common consciousness of humanity - Alaya. Note that Heroic Spirits are not necessarily "heroes" in the common meaning of it : Gilles de Rais is a crazy murderer yet he's a Heroic Spirit.


 * The Servant system always tap in the Throne of Heroes, hence always Heroic Spirits. Why, simply because souls normally disperse, and the Throne is the only place where you can actually find such souls :P


 * And so, as it goes, the very first line of the article says Servants are Heroic Spirits. And the article on Heroic Spirits does say the above - well, it doesn't clearly say they can be evil, but it does say that it's those who are remembered in legends and have accomplished miracles and so.


 * "Heroes are those who have achieved greatness. Regardless of the authenticity, they are supermen whose feats are firmly believed in and have been transmitted in legends." No more, no less. Oh well, I still added a specific paragraph for that in here.


 * As for Counter Guardians, they are still Heroic Spirits as well, although they are not remembered, but that's an exception pointed out in their article. --Byakko 13:33, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I admit it all stood there in the articles but it's still not ergonomic to have to read two articles to understand just one. Dixi. --Koveras Alvane 21:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

New structure proposal
I propose replacing the current content of the Known Servants section with the table found in my sandbox. Tell me what you think. --Koveras Alvane 18:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * A table could be nice, but such a big one ends up harder to read. The current setup is easier to read. Still, separate tables could work - one per era (FSN, FZ, FHA, FTC). Afterall, only Saber and Gilgamesh are in both FSN and FZ, and FHa can easily keep its note "everyone from FSN". Additionally, the columns "identity" and "Servant" seem redundant, since the "class" column has no link and the "Servant" column either refers to the class name or to the identity. So I'd rather suggest a table per war with the class (your current "Servant" column with the links), identity (same), and Master (same). --Byakko 20:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Something along these lines? --Koveras Alvane 11:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, much more reader-friendly and straightforward. --Byakko 22:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Should I do it, then? --Koveras Alvane 17:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No objection here. I'd just have removed the link to the "Black Knight" since he never was "that specific Black Knight" (well, any of the Black Knights listed in the Wikipedia article I mean) but simply a knight with a black armor ; but with Fate/Zero 4 released, it's really Lancelot as it was suspected, so that's settled anyway. Ditto for Avenger, it's not "Angra Mainyu (assumed)", it's "Angra Mainyu" period. --Byakko 17:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, took me some time. ^^; --Koveras Alvane 12:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

New Sections?
There's alot of information in the top section of the article and its getting a bit top-heavy. I propose we make a shorter summary up top then move the information under its own heading/headings down below. --Veekat 01:30, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay I ended up reorganizing it myself. Moved most of the information from the top section was placed under "Nature." I also think the articles for each specific servant class were too short to be by themselves so I added them to a new section "Classification" and will have the stubs redirect to there. Veekat 01:30, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Hey Sorry to Interupt but What happened to that new section in the Servent Classification section. the one about that 9th servent Seeker also known as the Adventurer class servent.---(Oblivion One)


 * It's your made up crap, why did you expect anyone would let it here when it's obvious nonsense ? By the way even if you try to "sign" with a different name, the history makes it very clear who edited the page. --Byakko 11:43, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

The original Hassan-i Sabbah
I was wondering if the original Hassan-i Sabbah is one of the nineteen assassin, then does that mean he should gain fame and glory from the other Hassan and be able to have a decent attributes in fighting other servents. Since the other had lost their identity and was using his name.

He still would be a nameless wraith. Due to the fact that his identity isn't remembered. He is still only remembered as the head of an elite killing organization, but is no more fame than the rest of the assasisins.

Past Hassan?
It's notable that while not particularly distinct, the Assassins of the First and Second wars were incarnations of the Hassan-i-Sabbah, so shouldn't they be added to the list of servants? If so, can someone do that cause I can't work the chart. Hawkeye2701 20:34, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Gunner Class
I ask this, just so I know whether this should be put up. I can't remember what week it is, but I know Archer references the Gunner Class when you talk to him in the Personal Room one day. He says, that if he were in such a class, he would aim for being the title, "Le Diable Rouge" ((The Red Devil)). I'm curious if we want to post it up under Servant Classes or not.Zahadrin (talk) 21:49, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * If it is hypothetical on his part, then it doesn't need to be added. If he talking about it as if the class exists, then it is fine to put it in the article. EGGS (talk) 23:22, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think Nasu mentions somewhere that gunners can't become servants/guns can't become NPs due to how easy it is to wield a gun or something of the like. Archer's comment was probably just a one off joke not meant to be taken seriously.--Otherarrow (talk) 23:33, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * They mention Billy the Kid as a possible Servant if I remember correctly. The Moon Cell seems a bit lax on those details considering they aren't actual Heroic Spirits. It seems like such cases would be placed under Archer anyway, so I imagine it was just hypothetical on his part. But at the same time, such a variable system could allow for it. It would be nice to have a quote, but there doesn't seem to be any relevant playthroughs on Youtube. EGGS (talk) 23:42, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

servants life
I wanted to know bout the servant's life after they finished their mission in holy grail....holy grail held 10 years once right? and its still continue, but why the servants never change and getting old? saber didn't even change after emiya's father....so what will happend with their world when they arrived to the real world for holy grail? I mean just like the people around there, etc....change? or still same when they first time arrived? is the servant will be like that forever or someone will replace them? sorry for my knowledge

servants life
I wanted to know bout the servant's life after they finished their mission in holy grail....holy grail held 10 years once right? and its still continue, but why the servants never change and getting old? saber didn't even change after emiya's father....so what will happend with their world when they arrived to the real world for holy grail? I mean just like the people around there, etc....change? or still same when they first time arrived? is the servant will be like that forever or someone will replace them? sorry for my knowledge

Okay, from what I can decipher, you're asking why Servants don't age? It's cause they're already dead. Well, most of them. The War is supposed to be held every 60 years, but the interval between the 4th and 5th was only 10. When a Servant is done with the Holy Grail War, assuming their wish is not granted, they return to the Throne of Heroes. A sort of record for those Heroic individuals before being summoned again. Think of it like a save file on a computer. When a war begins, a person loads up the file for that hero, and when they're done, they pu it back the way it was.

In terms of when they're in the real world, unless the Servant possesses a physical body, like Sabre or Gilgamesh after the 4th war, they have no need to eat, sleep or change in any fashion. They're spirits, so its like asking why doesn't a ghost change it's clothes every once in a while.

Admittedly, as I pointed out, there's some exceptions. Gilgamesh was around between  the 4th and 5th wars and didn't noticably age, but that's cause he used a youth potion to basically shave ten years off and just grew up again in time for the next war. Sabre on the other hand, when she dies in a war, she isn't returned to the Throne, but to the time of her death, so when not in the war, she's basically in a perpetual state of near-death, the interval between wars could simply be seconds to her whilst being decades for the participants. I hope this has cleared some things up. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 16:57, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

No Class Duplicates?
"More than one version of the same class cannot be summoned, even if all the Masters were to use the variation in the summoning chant to get a Berserker-class Servant."

Would this be technically wrong as the Third Holy Grail War had two Saber classes summoned or does this only apply to the Berserker class?

Master Ridley (talk) 21:07, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * That was apparently a special case for which we don't know the full details. What we do know is that the Sabers were the same Heroic Spirit split into "good" and "evil" Servants due to the unique condition concerning their Masters.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:01, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Basically in that case, there were 2 Sabres, but they were the same person, just 2 facets, they still counted as a single entity in the war and did not take up another Servant's spot. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 04:43, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Have a look at the Edelfelt's family trait. The abnormality has more to do with the family trait, than the Edelfelt intentionally violating the rules. Waifu slayer (talk) 06:34, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Non-magical weapons
Conventional weapons are said to be ineffective against servants, but why is that exactly? Once they materialize they become physical in their composition. It's reasonable to assume that their bodies are still much more durable than a normal humans, but a sufficiently powerfull non magical weapon should still wound them if it hits.

Scorpion91 (talk) 00:48, April 2, 2014 (UTC)Scorpion91

The reason why conventional non-magical weapons can't hurt them is because while they have material form, it will still be composed of Ether which can only be affected by magic. When Servants go into physical form they don't gain a flesh-and-blood living body,it just a solid shape, kinda like the T-1000 in Terminator movie, just much better at imitating a human body, but it's still made of the same material as their Spirit Form, just "solid" enough to interact with the physical world. They are literally beings of pure magic and thus can only affected by magic. Fbiuzz (talk) 17:58, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

Unless, of course, that armament is wielded by another Servant. For Example, the Stone Axe-Sword of Hercules. It's only influence from the Servant is the might used to wield it, unlike weapons picked up by Lancelot that literally become Noble Phantasms upon grasp. Zahadrin (talk) 18:21, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

True but it's not the Stone Axe-Sword that doing the damage, rather it's Hercule's Strength it. Apparently for Servants, attacks from other servants, even if their using mundane objects are still classified as a form of magical attack for some reason, hence Rin's "Can kill Saber with a paper knife" speech. However it's much more effective to use a noble phantasm since while Servants can use mundane weapons, the mundane weapons don't instantly gain magical properties, unless they are enhanced by something like Knight of Honor. A good example, Assassin's sword which would have broken if he met a full force blow from Saber's Excalibur, and was one of the reason he lost the fight(sword got dented which mess up his technique).

Regarding MEoDP
Can you lot please talk about it here instead of editing back and forth? I was going to complain in the edit summary but it published before I could. Hence the double reversion. TurtlesAllTheWayDown (talk) 16:52, October 17, 2014 (UTC)

Sun Wukong Imperial War?
Listed in other servants we have Sun Wukong for his/her limited appearance in Koha-Ace, but one of our more recent images showing the colour version of the Demon Archer includes Okita to Archer's right and Sun Wukong to Archer's left. With that sort of line up, despite limited appearances, implies to me that he/she is included in the Imperial War line up. So should Sun Wukong be shifted from the 'Others' list to the Imperial War one? Hawkeye2701 (talk) 04:49, November 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think she has actually appeared since the Sakura Saber reveal. Putting her on the cover art was probably just part of the joke. EGGS (talk) 17:09, November 17, 2014 (UTC)

Knight Classes
Hey guys, sorry to bother anybody, but I just need a little conformation, regarding the Rider Class. Yeah some, people (mostly fans) have been insisting that it is part of the Knight Class servants, when I specifically heard that there are only 3 knight class servants, and I clearly see Saber, Lancer and Archer filling those positions. Now I don't mean to deny any of their claims, but Can I get som conformation from the experts, so that I can write my news article more accurately.


 * As I understand it, the Rider Class is only comparable to the Knight Classes. But only Saber, Archer, and Lancer are Knight Classes. Zahadrin (talk) 04:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

When looking at the Non-Villainous members of the Rider class, Alexander the Great, Astolfo, Achilles, Saint George, they certainly share a demeanour and methodology with the Knight Classes more than Caster, Assassin and Berserker would. This is likely one of the factors that led to the confusion.

However, there are only three knight classes. The Sabre, Archer and Lancer. These three are some of the core classes of the Grail, so while others might get swapped out from time to time, these three are basically always summoned. It might help to think of it in terms of a strategy game. While Rider, Caster, Assassin and Berserker are all specialised units with a unique approach to battle, the Knights tend to be straight forward infantry, even the Archer class, despite its ranged focus, has many heroes who would stand and fight opponents head to head quite willingly. Meanwhile, its basically the Rider's job to unleash an incredibly powerful phantasm and trample the enemy before they get a chance to retaliate. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 07:07, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

Butler
"Others: The class Gunner (ガンナー, ?) is suggested as a possibility by Archer. Lancer declares herself to be Idol (アイドル, ?) and nicknames Gilgamesh Gorgeous (ゴージャス, ?). Butler (バトラー, ?) is also used in a joking manner."

Are you sure it's supposed to be Butler? The kana could also mean Battler, and it makes more sense. Sandubadear (talk) 03:11, April 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why would Battler be mentioned in a joking manner? Zahadrin (talk) 07:56, April 9, 2015 (UTC)


 * No I think the Guys at Type-Moon just want make the company and it's universe into a bigger joke by playing a lousy Black Butler Sebastian Michaelis, Hayate the combat butler, sketch where tey will obviously use EMIYA as the Butler. Oh of coures it is a Joke! Who in their right minds would be stupid enough to put a class like Butler. The Idol class was dumb enough, but even it was logical. This has to be without a doubt the dumbest Class imaginable.113.23.131.2 10:42, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Jesus, chill the frick out. It was an off hand joke, I doubt it'll ever be addressed again honestly... Anyway I think Zaha has the right of it, Battler would be an unlikely class to make fun of given the titles of other canon classes, so Butler, especially if it is an equally valid translation, makes much more sense to be the target of a humourous jab. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 15:58, April 9, 2015 (UTC)