Tiamat

Anyways, continuing.

- Tiamat (Beast II) (Fate/Grand Order) > First Hassa (Grand Assassin) (Fate/Grand Order) - No-Low Difficulty (-).

- Artoria Pendragon (Saber) (Fate/stay night) (11th -12th Seal) > Oberon Vortigern (Pretender) (Fate/Grand Order) (Lost belt) - High Difficulty.

- Artoria Pendragon (Saber) (Fate/stay night) (5th Seal) > Jeanne d'Arc (Ruler) (Fate/Apocrypha) - High-Extreme Difficulty.

- Medusa (Rider) (Fate/stay night) > Ren Amamiya (Persona 5) - Mid Difficulty.

Since I didn't go into the topic before when talking about Beast II avoiding it, I want to see the opinions of people. Some people claim that Zeus is superior to beasts.

For me, and what seems to have been said, I don't think Zeus is on the level of a full beast.

Before we get into this, we know 100% from LB 5.5 that Goetia and Alien God are Superior to Zeus and Chaos. As they state none have been as powerful as the two.

Now lets get to the other beasts

1. Beast II

2. Beast III R/L

3. Beast IV and IV/L

4. Beast VI

Now before we get into this, we are going with Lostbelt Zeus, but it will be in a neutral zone. We can talk about the results if they weren't in a neutral zone and instead were in Olympus, or in a reality marble or singularity. But for now, we will go with their base to base.

Zeus The King of Gods

If we go by Zeus' abilities, he is mentioned to be below Goetia, even having his creator Chaos not be mentioned to be above Goetia.

But we also know Zeus and Lostbelt Kings are strange in their scaling, outside of their lost belt they aren't as powerful as being noted as a "Lostbelt King" which means you gain authority over that reality.

Let's go with Zeus who has absorbed all other functions from the other Gods, in the battles because they are neutral zones he would not be burdened by Olympus. But he would also lose anything from being a Lostbelt King.

Beast II

The Beast of Regression is the second beast Chaldea has seen. (Fou is the first). She isn't mentioned much anymore, usually, they compare everyone to Beast I. The last time she was mentioned was by Mash when talking about Echidna seeming similar to Tiamat.

Tiamat is noted by the Lion King as being equal if not superior to Beast I, though some say she was only on the level of the False Grand. Though the Lion King was noted as having "acquired a level of perspective on par with his, understanding both his ideal and his purpose" even knowing secrets about his temple. The Lion King knew about beasts which isn't surprising because Odin knew about beasts.

We know that Beast II's authorities are on a level before Genesis, as stated by Quetzal. She is one of the driving forces and powers in Mesopotamian myths, with authorities that we may not know of but likely have stemmed from Tiamat and Abzu. We also know she has Potnia Theron allowing the endless amount of magical beings to be produced, those on the level of divine spirits and back before she became a beast even on the level of gods. Her main authority, one noted to be on par with the bands of light, was the Sea of Life. The Sea grants her infinite magical energy from True Ether that predates Genesis. Creatures corrupted or created from the sea possess high-level skills and depending on when they are formed can rival demon god pillars, or be born at the level of divine spirits.

If we use Anime, Tiamat's magical energy surpasses the Lion King's by 300x. With even the powered-up Femme Fatale being nearly 4x above the Lion king.

We know that the beast has been shown that they aren't able to die no matter what, possessing multiple immortalities stacked on top of each other. Possessing the ability to not die as long as there is a living being in the realm she exists within, she lacks the concept of death, so even if you get the first condition, you can't kill her. Lastly Immortality of the Beast, shows that beasts even if they "die" losing their immortalities, their bodies are destroyed and all. They don't die; seemingly as long as humanity is a thing, the beasts will continue on.

There are two ways we can take Zeus Vs Beast II by.

1. The way we saw her in Babylonia

2. The way a fight like this would actually happen

If we go with the way in Babylonia, Tiamat would not have a mind and would be sealing her abilities.

If we go with it being neutral, Tiamat wouldn't seal herself against Zeus nor let her mind be destroyed on purpose.

First off, going with Babylonia. Tiamat won't be distracted by trying to destroy Uruk, in fact, with Zeus becoming such a big threat, her attention would be squarely on him. Likely not sealing herself as much, as Zeus isn't one of her children.

Now people who make debate of Zeus Vs Beasts all say "Tiamat can't do anything her output is too low." Her output is at a minimum on the same level of Goetia, she may not send an instant powerful beam as Goetia can, but she isn't going to stand there doing anything.

Zeus' flight will spare him from being swallowed up by the sea, but eventually, the Lahmu being born from the sea will simply start flying and attack Zeus. He won't be taking much damage from them, though it's not as if he is gonna be uncontested with firing lightning at Tiamat. Tiamat would eventually simply fly as well, and no, Zeus isn't "a faster flyer" Tiamat is noted to go around the stars as well.

There are those who say "Zeus will place the authority of death upon her" Hassan needed to release his Grand Status, which gives an extreme boost as shown with Orion.

Though if we are taking Tiamat without a mind, Zeus is likely capable of Destroying Tiamat's body. We know that Zeus is capable of destroying the Bodies of Gods, though if Zeus doesn't destroy Tiamat quickly enough, he will be overwhelmed eventually. As Tiamat would simply be raising her energies and modifying her body.

Though if we go by the fact that Tiamat can simply spawn her sea, which requires the bands of light to destroy making Tiamat's body on par with Chaos who was stated to be able to do the same thing.

Zeus would eventually be overwhelmed.

Let's say "Tiamat isn't on the level of Goetia" fine, we know she is far, far far superior to Goddess Rhon 300x in her Titan form. Goddess Rhon was comparable to Morgan's Rhon, which surpassed Kirschtaria. Kirschtaria is above 10% Zeus and likely would be comparable to at least 40% Zeus, as Zeus had to raise his abilities to survive the attack of Kirschtaria. We can even say he was only 11% of Zeus' abilities, it wouldn't change anything.

Going by the numbers from Tiamat being scaled not from Goetia but above Goddess Rhon, she still surpasses Zeus.

If we go with Tiamat, who has a mind and isn't showing mercy to Zeus, well it would be a wash. She would go to whatever level she needed to, using her authority using the mind of a Goddess instead of just using them by instinct.

Beast III L/R

Kiara and Kama,

Let's go with Kiara first, Zeus has Ruler Class designation so he instantly loses to Kiara. The end focus.

Alright, let's actually go through it, if we go with Zeus not actually being a Ruler. (Which he is as stated by Chaldea) In a Neutral Zone, I think Zeus would be superior; Kiara has still noted as a weak beast. If she can't use her hacks against Zeus, then she doesn't have the firepower to destroy him.

Kama, other than Zeus enjoys the fact Kama gives all forms of pleasure. Outside of her singularity, she is screwed since she isn't a full beast yet.

Beast IV and Beast IV/L

Now let's go with Fou and Vitch

Fou, we don't know Fou's serious mode. At most, we know a Fou who doesn't own the beast class and takes 7 counter force guardians. A serious beast fou might be stronger than Zeus, but we don't know.

Vitch is straight-up weaker, not being a fully developed Beast, Ibuki isn't afraid, and they don't show too much fear of Vitch's beast form. Saying she started her plans way too quickly.

Beast VI

Now we have 4 beasts that represent Beast VI; now, let's say they all scale similarly. Each one of them would crush Zeus, currently, Whore of Babylon is only person who has been stated above Goetia (which people don't argue about).

If we use the fact Beast 6 L/R were one being, and if they scale anywhere near Whore of Babylon. A true form of Beast 6 from L/R would be crazy and far surpass anything else we have seen.

Whore of Babylon being above Goetia is far above Zeus, there aren't really many reasons to go on with them.

Bonus Round

In Zeus' Lostbelt,

Tiamat would eventually corrupt the lost belt and defeat Zeus

Kama and Kiara get destroyed

Vitch and Fou are destroyed

Whore of Babylon wipes out everything

Round 2 VS Chaos

Tiamat, if she scales to Goetia, she defeats Chaos if they ever encounter each other. Both can cause Space time Quakes, so it's not as if Chaos' NP would be unique.

Kama, Kiara, Vitch, Fou. Well it's obvious

Whore of Babylon, it's the same.

Now

If you disagree, give a reason and your reasoning. There was a lot to say about Tiamat Vs Zeus, 1, because that was going to be my original post 2, There are some people who say "Zeus crushes".

If you want me to bring the "where are things said," I will.

Anyways bye

We know beings like Tiamat and Abzu existed at and before Genesis, as Tiamat herself is one of the mothers of it and is said to be able to redo it by Gilgamesh. But likely other Primordials were there, even some dragons like Albion were there.

Were they just playing primordial chess, primordial Uno with the imaginary numbers?

"This is a joke answer and response"

But Tiamat and Abzu did exist predating earth; did they just exist and then have life start?

Did other primordials do the same? or did they watch? Waiting for Ea/Enki to be created to cool the earth.

Tiamat's Down Play. In the Fate Community, there has been a lot of downplaying of the Beast II, the Mother of Genesis. She has been said to be one of the weaker bosses we have fought when comparing against LB kings and other characters in Fate.

I will give the information we have been given in Fate about her capabilities that were straight-up stated and then brought up her potential capability using other lore that would fit for the Mother of Genesis.

Let us Begin with the downplays and the counters to them.

1. Tiamat was regarded as able to fire the equivalent of a Hydrogen Bomb; compared to planetary and galactic powers, we see Beast I and the Lostbelt Kings use that is nothing.

1A. The Counterpoint is, in Section 18: Awakening of Babylonia, we are shown that The form Tiamat is in was her original one. That is where she displayed the Output of a hydrogen bomb from just her yells.

1B. Tiamat, in the same Section, is stated to have the energy capacity to travel between stars when reaching her Titan self. As well as being stated she has an endless supply of Magical energy. Her Output, while unknown, her supply is infinite as she generates the Mud herself.

1C. She bypassed the universe's rules that even the gods are forced down by. Bypassing the Conversion of mass. That needs an Authority that only existed in the Time of Genesis, which even an Ancient being Quetzalquotal doesn't possess.

1D. If we use the Anime (Which is to your interpretation), Simple yelling from a being with 11,010,303 points of magical energy was enough to release a hydrogen bomb. It wasn't even from her actual body, simply her brain. As well, Her Magical energy skyrockets in her Titan form to 900,360,230. Suppose we use the fact that Amaturesu's Magical energy output is stated to be 387,420,489, with her being equal to that of Ars Almadel Salomonis. Then we see that Tiamat would be nearly 3x that of Goetia's NP and Amaterasu without accounting for her endless energy supply. (Though this point is to be taken with salt because Magical energy outputs aren't always consistent. But we know it takes the Sun's Output to destroy her Sea. Which. is only rivaling Tiamat. But as shown, she can reproduce her Sea. This is because Amaterasu is the equivalent of the Sun, and she rivals Goetia's NP. This means to destroy her Sea would require the equivalent of the Sun's energy.)

2. Tiamat seems to be slow and incapable.

2A. As shown, Tiamat was severely holding back against us during the entirety of the Singularity; people assume she is unable to do anything smart. Though as delivered, even without a brain, her instincts do allow for self-preservation and to continue her mission. If we even follow Arcade, Tiamat is shown that she isn't stupid, even in an immature form. Which we know is nothing compared to her true self.

2B. In Section 18 of Babylonia, Quetzal is described as a visitor more ancient than Altera, meaning she was on Earth before Sefar. She says not even aliens could stop her, even knowing of Sefar's existence. Quetzal is a being who comes from an entirely different universe more ancient than the one Sefar comes from. This gives Quetzal a lot of credibility. (No, this isn't Tiamat vs. Sefar)

2C. We have only seen her extremely suppressed and weakened side. We have not been shown her blood-lust side; we know Gods can have many authorities, especially chief and primordial gods.

3. Tiamat is shown to be able to be killed, so the fact she dies proves she isn't absolute. 3A. Tiamat is never shown the ability to; her spirit core is shown to be deconstructed after Hassan gives her the concept of Death. But she is still shown returning and being in the INS; this time, she is not in slumber and, in fact, is awoken. She was not killed after 1. Her Sea was removed 2. She had the concept of Death placed on her, and 3. Her body and mind were destroyed. She has shown to be more unkillable than anyone else we have seen in Fate yet.

3B. Romani, in Section 18 (I know a section used a lot), States that her existence is the beginning and final; as long as beings exist, she will continue to live too. It doesn't only mean the Sumerian people; Romani implied all humans exist because of herself. That, at most, they could weaken her by bringing her to the place of the dead.

4. Goetia is just stronger than Tiamat.

4A. We do not know the exact form of Goetia vs. Tiamat; we know one thing. Goetia's NP rivals one of Tiamat's authorities. Both Goetia and Tiamat can reproduce it endlessly. Now, let's get into the straight facts.

Goddess Rhon and Quetzal were nothing compared to Tiamat. Two of the most potent divine spirits that we have ever seen. Goddess Rhon is the level of a Grand Servant, and Quetzal is what we see in the Age of Gods as a true high-tier Divine spirit. Tiamat is unkillable from all forms we know of surviving even when being killed while having the concept of Death and being weakened by many factors. She is a primordial Goddess who could create an entirely new planet that would spawn gods. She and Abzu were created in the Ocean of Void. She existed before the Earth was full of life; being the start in Fate, Extra Ea was the one who made the World, allowing it to be capable of holding nations and life. She possesses infinite True Ether, what has been labeled to be able to create stars and planets. As well even makes the gods. She possesses other abilities because of being a beast, meaning she surpasses her natural self as a beast.

Now, if we get into the hypothetical capabilities of Tiamat.

If we follow Magical energy levels, she reaches the capability of the Sun simply with her Sea. She possesses many other authorities being the Goddess that existed since Genesis. (The Same Genesis that Goetia is trying to reset) The beginning of the World.

Tiamat is at least 4.5 Billion years old, probably even older because of existing before Genesis, as shown by Quetzal's explanation. Therefore, Tiamat should possess the authority of Creation and is stated explicitly as a Goddess of Creation.

Tiamat should possess an innumerable amount of Authorities, as shown even when Ea. He took the powers of Abzu in myth, though he could not even surpass Tiamat. As shown in Fate, authorities are inheritable by the children of Gods.

Tiamat's abilities are far beyond the Grands, and she should be able to reproduce energies far beyond hydrogen bombs when getting to her true self.

Tiamat's most dangerous self is when she has her mind and is in her God-like body, as she should possess information that even Quetzal wouldn't know from existing before her.

Being from the Ocean of Void, she may come from the Root itself, thanks to the fact the Root is labeled as the Void. Though that is something to be taken with a grain of salt. T

Tiamat's existence is beyond LB kings, as a Beast Larva Vitch was a threat to them. With Tiamat being labeled as a fully established beast. As well as probably the eldest one being at minimum 4.5 billion years old. As well in, LB 5.5 shows that Ibuki Doji, who meets the LB kings ranks, is still below beasts.

Gilgamesh states Tiamat is the " true god of primordial earth" in section 16, and Gilgamesh is a reliable source.

Tiamat is one of the goddesses who, after her time, gained Authority over Nation building. This means after her time in mythology; she gained even more abilities, especially one of the higher-tier authorities. (No Çatalhöyük was not the first Goddess or creator of the authority. She is simply the first Goddess to have acquired the authority. Then it branched to the others.)

Cuando tiamat aparece en el anime de babilonia ¿es la verdadera, o una proyeccion? ya que si es la verdadera entonces, cuando es derrotada vuelve a la dimensión de numeros imaginarios o desaparece (Dead) para siempre ??