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Centralized area to propose changes or general comments. Create a new header for each topic.

Terminology unification[]

Section for discussing terminology to make sure it's consistent across the wiki due to the varying nature of fan translations and official localization.

AWB projects[]

  • Thaumaturgy --> Magecraft
  • Greater History of Man -- > Proper Human History
  • Greater History -- > Proper Human History
  • Pan-Human History -- > Proper Human History


Images[]

Formatting[]

Can we please use PNG where possible? I dunno why some people keep insisting on JPGs when there are better files available. -- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Is it possible to name a png with the same name of a picture that has already been uploaded as a jpg? I don't know how people do it with the stages. Everytime I try to upload a fgo stage pic with a translucent background without replacing the jpg with the official background art, the wiki tells me I can't repeat the name, despite both files having different types.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 12:11, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

There should be an option you can click that says something like "save anyway" if that's the case, I know I've done it a few times. -- Banksia (talk) 14:59, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Renaming files[]

I'm in the long, slow process of updating image names into something that's actually searchable. Mainly I want some consistency between filenames, especially with all the FGO art. Some notes for anyone who wants to help:

  • Search uses both file name and summary, however it has trouble with no spacing and wildcards (*) DO NOT WORK
  • Keep common acronyms where possible -- can possibly discuss what these are but they're generally self-evident
  • The wiki seems to have trouble displaying files that have diacritics/accents in the filename so it's best to avoid them.
  • Hoping to use a "(Class) (Name) (Card/Portrait/Illust)" formatting for FGO art -- going to add to this point in a bit, just a tad busy atm

-- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Please note Wikipedia's Manual of Style guidelines on file names(WP) for more information. -- Banksia (talk) 11:43, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Descriptions[]

If possible, we should start putting some descriptions in image files (or at least the important ones), similar to what's being done with Craft Essences files. Just basic stuff, doesn't need to be long descriptions (although I guess people can do that too). It'll help with search results as well. -- Banksia (talk) 03:07, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Galleries[]

I'm noticing an uptick in the use of slideshows, but I think they're being overused. It's one thing if it's 2-4 images (four is already the maximum recommended by Fandom's own guidelines) but I've seen them stacked with 10 images. As they're formatted on Fandom now, the images just end up too small, and I think there's still a bug (or feature??) where you can't open the images on an overlay like you can with normal thumbnails. -- Banksia (talk) 12:04, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Image Use[]

Using File:QuetzalcoatlJungleBabylonia.png as an example - this was a generic jungle background introduced during the first FGO summer event so is not strictly associated with Quetz. There's been other generic images uploaded to the wiki as well. Barring very specific backgrounds (such as Honnoji and LB6), I don't know that a lot of these really need to be used. -- Banksia (talk) 11:22, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, it might be better to use anime/manga images for stuff like that. EGGS (talk) 17:37, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Articles[]

Alternate versions[]

I would like to now when do alternate versions of one characters get their own article, their Alternate Forms section, or nothing at all. It's a bit confusing since there isn't a clear criteria to follow. In my opnion that is. Swimsuits and Alters are easy, but when characters morph throughout the story I can't tell what's the correct choice. I haven't read LB6, but wasn't Oberon for example his own character at some point? Shouldn't he have his own article separate from Oberon Vortigern? Or at least have a section in List of characters. Similarly, I think Light Koyanskaya should be split from Tamamo Vitch (Alter Ego/Beast). I don't understand why when a servant appears in another class with a different set of abilities they get their own article, but Konyanskaya doesn't. And well, maybe the Heroic Spirit Swordmasters should get their own article too just like other modified servants (Megalos comes to mind). I think that's all.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 20:31, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Oberon was always Vortigern. He was always a Pretender moving things for his own machinations. Koyan, currently waiting for 6.5 to happen before we restructure anything. Koyan Light is currently portrayed as the same continuous personality with no actual change beyond her class and name. If anything will be split out, it'd probably be the Beast version if that happens. If she doesn't become a Beast but splits into Light and Dark, then we'd probably make two pages based around the two versions. The Swordmasters are basically Alters for all intents and purposes, so I've been contemplating splitting them out. With the Shimousa manga providing a bit more of a visual difference for some of them, that makes it a little bit easier to justify. EGGS (talk) 21:21, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
I know the Oberon Fujimaru meets is Vortigern is disguise. What I meant is what the fgo porfile says. PHH Vortigern was summoned in LB6 and he merged with Oberon, becoming Oberon Vortigern. When they say "Oberon was married to blah blah blah" or "Oberon is the King of Faries", they are talking about a different character than vortigern pretending to be him. That's what I meant. Shouldn't info only involving Oberon pre-LB6 fusion be on its own article? I just find sentences such as "shakespeare created the oberon character" linking to fairy vortigern extremely weird.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 16:57, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
I propose we split up his article just like we did Space Ishtar and Demon King Nobunaga. Everything involving LB6 would go to Oberon Vortigernand but info only concerning the fairy king pre fusion to Oberon.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 17:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
They're not alternate personalities, so it wouldn't really make any practical sense. Even if "Heroic Spirit Oberon" is something that can be summoned indivdually, it's the same case as Van Gogh where we're never going to see the individual components in the context of FGO at the very least. EGGS (talk) 17:35, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm personally not a fan of the Chaos Tide versions getting their own articles. I know they're Alters, but Benkei especially only appears for a few scenes in one event. -- Banksia (talk) 02:54, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Canon to Fate[]

I've been thinking for a while that we should do a little proofreading session going over the most important characters. I think there are people just inserting everything they know about real life myth into the wiki articles whether that info has been confirmed as canon in fate or not. Pegasus being listed as Medusa (Rider)'s offspring, or Poseidon's background section going over how Cronos devoured his children are some good examples. I'm pretty sure that those things have never been stated on any official fate source, so they should be removed. This type of problem also appears in the relatives tab, where the greek characters have over 20 people listed there. In fate, I think all we know about Achilles is that he is son to Peleus and Thetis, however, in his article, he has his real life grandparents and cousins listed, even though I'm 100% positive they haven't been name dropped in fate.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 10:43, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, anything not actually mentioned directly within the context of the story or side materials can be removed. Though there are cases like Pegasus (direct gift in hollow, speculated to be her child in the CE of her other offspring) where there exist references to multiple interpretations within Fate itself, so all of those should be documented. EGGS (talk) 12:27, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Yes. The problem is that because no one uses references it's hard to tell if the source is some obscure CE/material most people don't know about or if someone made it up entirely.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 13:56, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Citation needed tags or just full scale TNT is fine depending on the circumstances. We can just have the expectation that every field of the info box have a citation if we want. EGGS (talk) 14:12, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Contents[]

Not expecting much to come of this but is there any way to limit the copypasta from Reddit translations? -- Banksia (talk) 12:14, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm fine just TNTing any direct copy and paste that's not utilized for quotation purposes. We have the encyclopedia pages for that stuff. EGGS (talk) 18:29, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Extreme long-term project: rewording articles to have actual content and summarising where possible. -- Banksia (talk) 11:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Greek Family Members[]

As I already addressed here in Canon to Fate a while back, the current character tabs listing the family members of a few servants/gods are a mess. A lot of users have been inserting for years family members that to my knowledge haven't even been name dropped in fate. (Rhea for instance), let alone having been confirmed to be related to other characters. I've recently been updating the Lostbelt Machine Gods with their CANON CONFIRMED family members. The confirmed lineage includes:

Those are the confirmed relationships. There's also stuff such as Demeter having inherited Gaia's Authority, Zeus and Hades being from the same "line", and so on. I'd like to know if any of you are aware of official sources confirming any other relationships such as "Hades is Zeus's brother", that Hephaustus was fathered by Zeus, etc. I know proofreading is always an inconvenience, but since Olympus just released in NA I think now is the time.GuessWhoYoutube (talk)

Minor characters[]

Still proposing we either split up the List of minor characters article into different canons or break them up into their own character articles. The page is too long. -- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Renaming articles for consistency[]

I noted down that some Servant articles need to be renamed to be consistent among Fate off-shoots e.g. the Fate/Prototype and Fate/EXTRA Servants are largely tagged as only "Prototype" and "EXTRA", so it needs applying to others like Grand Order and EXTELLA Servants. -- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I noticed that too, but I prefer the original. I think "Gilgamesh (Fate/EXTRA CCC)" is better than "Gilgamesh (EXTRA CCC)" or "Gilgamesh (CCC)."GuessWhoYoutube (talk)

Templates[]

Navboxes[]

The navboxes pretty much all need an overhaul, splitting up by canon and so on. I noted down the ones used by the Final Fantasy wiki as examples for myself.

More than that though, there's apparently a way to format them so that you can make a bullet list and it'll format the • instead of us having to do it manually, which would be super helpful for the really long navboxes like Noble Phantasms and what'll eventually be the FGO navbox. Been meaning to look into it but have been swamped with other things. -- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Episodes/Volumes[]

Hoping to come up with a template for manga/novels/etc similar to how other wikis do it, like MHA or Naruto.

Template:Episode needs updating to be more in line with what's used at Wikipedia.

-- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Long term, would it be beneficial to go for episode/chapter lists or go for individual episode and chapter (or volume) articles? That'd probably dictate how those are designed. I merged the individual episodes way back, but there were only two shows at the time. With many more pieces of media, many completely original, revisiting individual articles might be better. EGGS (talk) 03:48, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
At least for television shows, I know that the long serials will generally have a table with episodes per season, sometimes with a short summary, and sometimes linking to an article for the episode itself. I think a lot of wikis do that with manga too. I think it should be doable like that? -- Banksia (talk) 04:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
I grabbed the volume template from the Bleach wiki. Seems like a good enough base to fiddle around with. Experimented with Fate/EXTRA CCC FoxTail Chapter 1 as well. EGGS (talk) 23:03, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
I know it's been a while and you've already made two(?) examples to test out. The Bleach wiki template seems a bit off if only because they have all their chapter info on one page and make use of scroll bars, of which I'm personally not a fan. That said, as you said, I like what you have now as a base. I like the examples of MHA, AoT and Naruto for how we could potentially format the infobox (introducing characters, Skills, NPs, etc.).
If anything, I think we have a bigger issue about how we'll want to name the articles, given how much media this wiki covers. I'll have to dig into what other mega-franchise wikis do. -- Banksia (talk) 13:03, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, getting more info into the infobox seems like a good idea. So far, I made List of Fate/EXTRA CCC FoxTail chapters and List of Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA chapters. For naming, I think [Series] Chapter [#] is probably the only real way to do it. If we want the phrase "Chapter #" to pull it up in the search bar we can either do redirects or simply name them Chapter [#] ([Series]) or Chapter [#] - [Series]. Naming after the chapter/episode title has always seemed like a weird way to do it considering the variations in translations and simply making it harder to search efficiently. EGGS (talk) 14:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Tabs[]

I really, really, really want an alternative to character/canon tabs, preferably using disambiguation pages. -- Banksia (talk) 02:59, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I like the tabs, but I think some people add too much text for no reason. Like, if Kama only appears in FGO, why does her tab have the class icon along with "fgo (kama)"? Wouldn't the class icon and the name be enough to fulfill the purpose of the tab?GuessWhoYoutube (talk)
We could consolidate any bloated ones at the very least. For Artoria, the unnecessary/secondary ones could be relegated to the disambig page. Or have the final tab of the main one be "other characters," which then links to a secondary set of tabs for the minor parody characters. More disambig pages regardless wouldn't hurt though. EGGS (talk) 01:31, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
Using Tabber seems to help with the ugliness issue at the very least. EGGS (talk) 15:17, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
It doesn't look very good on mobile, but I think editing for the mobile site will need to be a more concentrated effort (covering all templates) given how old this wiki is. -- Banksia (talk) 10:43, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Tried out using Template:Sidebar on Iskandar's Shadow with Template:Hephaestion. Any thoughts? It probably couldn't completely replace the tabs, but it's an option. EGGS (talk) 18:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks better than the tabs but my vote is still for disambiguation pages. :p -- Banksia (talk) 08:32, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Categories[]

Categories for discussion[]

List categories for review for renaming, merging, or deletion.

Rankings[]

I know Servant/NP ranking categories only got introduced last year(?) but I've been wondering how helpful they are. Honestly in the context of FGO, I don't think there's that much thought put into it (triple pluses is just silly!!). -- Banksia (talk) 13:21, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I think I made them after seeing comments from people on different sites simply looking for easy ways to find Servants with similar parameters. I'd agree some Servants in the last few years have probably had no real thought put into their stat distribution (A STR d'Eon standing out as particularly confusing), but it'd say they're useful enough for quick comparative navigation. EGGS (talk) 14:18, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Overcategorization[]

What exactly is the plan with all the new categories that have been added to the wiki in the last few months? It's hard to see how they add to organisation when some (a lot) of them feel arbitrary. I'm reminded of one user who argued for adding categories based on religion which was ultimately refused - a lot of new categories look to me like they're being added for the sake of adding them without considering their function on a wiki about Type-Moon. Or maybe the sheer amount is just too overwhelming for me to see the big picture. -- Banksia (talk) 11:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I do think a healthy category system is what a lot of wikis are missing, but there is definitely the opposite spectrum of overcategorization. Added an above section where potentially unnecessary categories and category trees can be listed for discussion. EGGS (talk) 13:30, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
There is definitely some really dubious categories added. LDSatoko just added a Crocodile category just for Ammit and the Kali monsters, which feels unnecessary when the Animal category does the job just fine. Making subcategories for every species of animals is overkill and cluttering. And there is also a "Life" category now??? Just a lot of categories that need justification for their existences. The Lord Reader (talk) 15:57, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, the animal category needed a little splitting, but that's going a bit too specific. "Life" appears to have been created following Wikipedia's category structure as a top level container category as part of Category:TYPE-MOON fiction. Can't really think of anything better. EGGS (talk) 22:23, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Automation[]

Literally just throwing out a list of things to look into whether there are AWB plugins for or stuff we could just put together to run a mass edit on every now and then. I feel like what I've managed so far is only pretty basic and surely more can be made, well, easier.

  • typoes (character/place names etc.)
  • template updates/changes/clean up CSVLoader(WP) might be a good choice
  • references formatting/clean up
  • renaming images and replacing page links at the same time

Look into Pywikibot??

-- Banksia (talk) 12:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Misc.[]

References[]

We need some kind of consistency with references but that would involve a LOT of work. -- Banksia (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Currently in progress at TYPE-MOON Wiki:Standardized references. Maybe we could eventually fold them into a template system for ease of editing? Not sure if that'd be useful or cumbersome. EGGS (talk) 21:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
I've looked into how other big wikis do it and it's something that would require an extensive, well, reference to go along with the template. We'd have to be pretty clear about every bit of media and materials. Having said that, this list is certainly a great start. -- Banksia (talk) 13:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Mobile issues[]

Mobile edits insert junk for some reason. The infamous "div-class" or however it's called. How is it that just typing in your phone automatically copy-pastes all the text multiple times? Is it just me? Could it be fixed? -- GuessWhoYoutube (talk)

This might be something we need to tag an actual wiki staff member about. -- Banksia (talk) 02:54, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Outreach[]

What are the chances that we can reach out to someone from the FGO Wiki to ask for their help in formatting this wiki? I've glanced over their CSS coding and it's very detailed in what it can do. Unfortunately it's a little out of my league to replicate. -- Banksia (talk) 12:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

If not, I think Fandom staff will help. There was a Fandom local manager previously, but not sure if they're still doing that. EGGS (talk)
Honestly an advisable suggestion, the CSS coding there makes it easy to navigate and look-up assets, especially for the purposes of editing related pages. ArcaneX (talk) 07:49, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia links[]

I know some places differentiate links to Wikipedia by color, formatting, or a little character next to the link. Do you think it would be beneficial to do that here? EGGS (talk) 20:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Personally I'm used to the redirect links here all being uniform in terms of colour, however that more than likely is just due to status quo/consistency bias. Overall though I'm unopposed to differentiating links to Wikipedia so long as it fits with the page/content format and the end result isn't too aesthetically jarring (taking away from the viewing experience, rather than contributing to it, which was the original intent). ArcaneX (talk) 07:56, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
Tests:
Gilgamesh(WP) is the king of Uruk(WP).
Gilgamesh(WP) is the king of Uruk(WP).
Wikipedia Gilgamesh is the king of Wikipedia Uruk.
Gilgamesh is the king of Uruk.
EGGS (talk) 12:41, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

I like the 2nd option. Gilgamesh(WP) is subtle but effective.GuessWhoYoutube talk

Launched the WP version to test it out. Let me know how it looks. It is cut off in the lead paragraph due to whatever cuts off Ruby text, so I do need to look into that. EGGS (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Maybe it would look better if the "WP" was in another color(?) Not sure, just so that it pops out and doesn't get confused with the regular text.GuessWhoYoutube talk
Tried red out. EGGS (talk) 13:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Imo it looks better. The difference in color remarks that it's a different type of link. Not sure if I'd go with red though, since it's the same color used for articles that don't exist. Let's see if someone else shares their take.GuessWhoYoutube talk
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