Talk: Michael Roa Valdamjong

Relationships

Okay, things in this page seems to be getting out of hand so I am requesting the help of the other members. Does anyone knows how much valid this whole info is? As far as I know, the only DAA that Roa ever had any contact with was Altrouge, and after that incident all the others decided to remain distant from the Serpent of Akasha. Meanwhile, Nero developed his power through his research on magic at least 200 years before Roa was born, while Walachia got his thanks to the contract with Brunestud. --Libra00 09:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Nero was a good friend of Roa ; Roa even taught him Soil of Genesis, a way to use his chaos, possibly based on Roa's usage of numerology. That's pointed out in the KT side-story where Shiki sees Roa's past in the Brunestud Castle 800 years ago, and again mentionned in MBAA when Roa and Nero meet each other. I haven't heard about Roa knowing Tatari, but then again I haven't paid much attention to MB storyline. From a quick glance on Arai's translation, it's not even mentionned in MBAA. EvoSpace recently pointed out that it does say : "- Wallachia became an Ancestor 500 years ago. The 13th Ancestor before him met Nero 800 years ago in a gathering held by the Lord of White Wing." The question would be, when did Roa ever had the time to meet the current Tatari. --Byakko 20:18, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

They didn't meet, period.

About SHIKI

Well, does SHIKI Tohno need his own wiki page? I think he is not a background character anyway, and even Roa drove him insanely, at least he has his own mind in some situations, such as in Akiha route and Drinking Dream Moon.

Also could I add some insignifiant information about Shiki Nanaya in Shiki Tohno's page, such as the small different between them (taste, hobby,...)? Despite of a small character (beside Melty Blood), Nanaya has been development well (but hiddenly) by Nasu. I am scare that if I add too many trivial things, maybe I will ruin the wiki.Pokokichi 11:31, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Separating SHIKI from Roa is kind of pointless. They're so tied together that most of SHIKI's article would be a rehash because the info on him would still have to remain in this article. Comparatively, an article on Melty Blood Nanaya could probably be split from Shiki's article pretty easily considering how different they have become. EGGS 15:00, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I see. But the idea making a new standalone wiki page for Shiki Nanaya seems not easy, atleast to me. I mean I don't really how to write a fine wiki page, with good structure and grammar in a wiki way. Even without it, Melty Blood is a hard-to-understand game, with mind-fucking plot. If someone make it, I may help editting.Pokokichi 15:26, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

I know it's 4 years late but I really think he should get his own page. He's literally an entirely different character in over half of Tsukihime, it feels really weird that he doesn't have a page. Maybe back then it was a fair decision but now where nearly everyone gets pages, like unimportant villains from one off Grand Order events (Testament). If you split apart the pages, taking some stuff from Roa's and adding it to a potential SHIKI page it would make it a lot more organized and easier to understand. A number of alternate version all get their own pages, like Alter servants, or even just alternate servant classes, so I really can't see why one of Tsukihime's major villain should be fused with the other villain, possession scenario or not.

I have to agree. While the nature of Roa's possession is rather confusing at points (Near Side Roa identifies as both Roa and SHIKI at the same time, repeated references to Roa being more a force of will with a set of memories attached than a person at this point, etc), within the context of the Far Side routes, SHIKI is treated as a mostly separate character from Roa (complete with different design despite logically the two should look if not identical, but at least pretty close) and Roa is treated, depending on the route, as either a urge in the back of his head or a "demonic spirit" inside of him. Not to mention, I believe SHIKI appears independently of Roa is Kagetsu Tohya and the notion of Near Side Roa being the same person as Far Side SHIKI is mocked in Melty Blood. So at this point, I feel having SHIKI merged with Roa is like if we merged Ciel with Roa. Also, yeah, if GO can introduce a bunch of weird variant characters and those get pages despite being effectively the same character, we can muster up a page for SHIKI, someone who is presented as a different character.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:54, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Also, in Akiha's route one of the bad ends has a "Teach me Ciel-sensei" where Roa states that in the Far side routes he has barely any influence on him and that's also why he has the different appearance with white hair. It doesn't really make any sense to have SHIKI's actions and roles on Roa's page when in the Far side Roa is nothing more than a dormant spirit in SHIKIs body that never even surfaces. A good example of a similar situation is Sieg and Siegfried from Apocrypha, they share more in common than SHIKI and Roa do, and are even considered the same person by the fanbase, but again they have separate pages. Sorry if I sound whiney but I'm just a SHIKI fan and he's already forgotten by Type Moon and the fanbase so I at least want to give him his own wiki page. I'm not sure how this wiki stuff works but I asked here first, I was just going to go ahead and split the pages but I'm not sure if I need permission.

Alright, I'm the one who made the two anonymous posts, made an account just for this. Are we gonna get any word from EGGS? I'd at least like to know your current thoughts on splitting the pages. TheSpartyn (talk) 11:45, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

If it helps any, I'm all for it, and would even take a crack at it if given the OK. I think the idea to keep them merged made sense at the time, but how the wiki deals with characters has shifted over the years. I mean, look at Saber Alter, a character who isn't a whole different person but just a separate persona of the same person. Before, we had her merged with Saber, but now she has her own page...and that's fine. It managed to be a full page despite being the same character as Saber. SHIKI, being a different character from Roa, more or less, is just as deserving, if not more so. It helps that they also have completely different abilities and goals, so I feel their would be minimal repeat information.--Otherarrow (talk) 12:38, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

Doesn't matter to me either way. I think I did put splitting it out on a to-do list somewhere here. EGGS (talk)

I took a stab at splitting it like I said I would. As I mentioned in the edit comments, about 90% of it is stuff snipped from Roa's page, but we can at least use that as a start, correct?--Otherarrow (talk) 00:15, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Wow you did a good job, just by taking stuff from Roa's page it looks already complete enough. I'll try adding to the page myself and expanding existing stuff but most of it seems to be there.  TheSpartyn (talk) 13:35, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Alright I added quite a bit to the page, feel free to edit as necessary, might not be the best quality but I tried. I've also gone and changed some pages where SHIKI Tohno linked to Roa's page, since there's quite a few. TheSpartyn (talk) 15:32, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Roa Vs Altrouge

by the time when Roa defeated Altrouge Brunestud, did altrouge have bodyguards, such as Rizo Waal -Strout, Fina-blood Svelten and primate Murder? or was she just alone?

cuz if she did have bodyguards, i might have to start to rethink Roa's capabilities Bryanblade (talk) 07:01, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

In that fight he had his abilities as a powerful Magus and the powers he took from Arcueid when she turned him into a vampire, these 2 combined made him powerful enough however after dying none of his incarnations had the same strength has his original as lack the Circuits which is why we doesn't use Magecraft in Tsukihime, so all he has going for him after the death of his original would be Arcueid's stolen powers.

As for Altrouge's bodyguards, i'm not sure but Primate Murder might have been around since the start since it's a Counter Force to kill humans, it's proably exsisted since the very begining and been her boyguard since shortly after her birth. But even if she did have all of them the fact she fought Roa herself would proably be more of her ego wanting to teach the "upstart newcomer" some respect, she might have already knew of Roa's abilities as a Magus and thought nothing of it but proably didn't know who turned him or that he stole Arcueid's power which may have came as a shock to her.

since there's nothing to say why Altrouge took Arcueid's hair one could assume that after loosing to Roa she then attacked Arcueid and took her hair as punishment for turning Roa and letting her power be stolen by him, but that's an assumption, wont know anything until something is release where we actuly see Altrouge in action or a works with some images of her explaining more into her history Memor-X (talk) 01:43, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

why he looks different in some routes?

I'm almost finished Akiha's route in Tsukihime, I already finished Arcueid's and Ciel's. Why does he look so different in the Far Side of the Moon route? It makes no sense :P Sandubadear (talk) 01:04, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

The Roa you see is the reincarnated version, and his soul molds the host. In the Near routes, Roa was the dominant existence, so that appearance is more true to the original (you can compare with the Plus Period sketch). In the Far routes, SHIKI was the dominant existence, so the appearance is closer to what Tohno SHIKI looked like. Waifu slayer (talk) 10:31, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, but why? No reason, right? Just because you went to sleep and didn't meet Nrvnqsr.

Well remember one thing that seperates the near and far side routes is that Shiki ignores Arcueid and insted is distracted by Satsuki, not meeting Nrvnqsr firmly sets you in the far-side routes.

With this being the case, Arcueid didn't get killed/weakened and didn't need Shiki's help in fighting Nrvnqsr, it's assumed that with the far-side routes Arcueid kills Nrvnqsr by herself.

From here this is only an asumption but Roa, finding out that Nrvnqsr is dead and Arcueid is hunting him, proably weakened his presences in SHIKI so that Arcueid couldn't find him, in this way SHIKI becomes dominant once again.

there is another bit of evidence that supports SHIKI becoming dominant in the far side, in the near-side Roa is not obsessed with Akiha, it's SHIKI who is obessed which he clearly is in the Akiha Route and this obession passes into Akiha when she kills him in the Hisui/Kohaku Routes when she becomes obessive over Shiki Memor-X (talk) 01:16, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

While we're already here, plz tell me, why didn't Shiki turn into a Dead (or a vampire) when Satsuki bit him? If it's something I'll learn in another route, tell me anyway, I don't care for spoilers Sandubadear (talk) 12:01, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

From what i remember, Shiki "killed" the blood Satsuki put into him, though i only remember the Hisui/Kohaku Routes Shiki doing this, i can't remember if it's the same in the Akiha Route Memor-X (talk) 01:16, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

That's right, he doesn't kill the blood in Akiha's route. Sandubadear (talk) 18:31, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

I feel like I'm reading about orochimaru give or take the vampire stuff

Tarantella

http://i.imgur.com/TuF4e4G.jpg

So what are we going to do with this new incarnation of Roa from the Edmond Dantes Drama CD? An alternate version page? Yokushi (talk) 13:27, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Sounds like we now have a very clear distinction on the split between Tsuki and Fate worlds, and this drama CD takes place in the Fate World and this Roa has a similar but different origin. Trying to cover both splits in the same article might be a pain. EGGS (talk) 17:17, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Now with the relevant part translated I think we should make a new page for Fate Roa just to make the distinction clear. Yokushi (talk) 19:30, 11 January 2021 (UTC)