Talk: Mystic Eyes

Holy/Heroic

"Holy Spirits" is used in this article. Is it supposed to be "Heroic Spirits"? --Raijinili 13:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Seeing that you edited Creatures in the meanwhile, I presume you already read about Holy Spirits. In the case of Cybele, it thing that part has to do with the fact that Medusa was originally a goddess (Divine Spirit), but eventually degraded to Holy Spirit when people started seeing her as a monster rather than goddess. That made her 'summonable' to Holy Grail War, but left her with abilities that are beyond a 'normal' Heroic Spirit. I could be wrong about this, though. Also, that passage doesn't have a source, so we have no idea if that's even what it even refers to... --Azaghal 14:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I didn't actually read it... --Raijinili 15:18, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, those three sentences are all there is on this wiki about Holy Spirits, and even that was imported from Fuyuki wiki... Anyway, my point was that unless that part was mistranslated or something, "Holy Spirits" is not an error --Azaghal 15:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Roa's eyes

"Though Roa believed they were a result of his numerous contacts with death due to his reincarnation ability, they in fact originated from his host, SHIKI Tohno. They allowed Roa to see and destroy the life of other living beings." Source? --Raijinili 17:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, SHIKI DID manage to steal some of Shiki's lifeforce when he was killed by Makihisa, so it could be that.--SolarAdept 12:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

No, what's the source for the claim that Roa's eyes come from Shiki? --Raijinili 04:44, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Ciel's Mystic Eyes

I think they are Whisper, since they didn't change color when used(otherwise Shiki would've probably mentioned it as strange, seeing how his Jougan allows him to naturally see unnatural stuff).

This also raises the possibility of Whisper being Blue in Noble Colors system, since Ciel's eyes are naturally blue.--SolarAdept 12:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Future Perceive

Okay, does anyone knows where does this come from? I never heard of anything of the sort in any of the official Type-Moon's materials. Also, I don't know about Seo Shizune, but I am pretty sure that Seo Akira's and Fake Killer's powers were classified as Pure Eyes somewhere. Libra00 15:35, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

By definition, Future Perceive should fall under Pure Eyes, since it doesn't interfere with anything in the real world, but merely gives information to the user. I'll fix that.
I also heard about it for the first time, but it seems to come from the extra chapter of Kara no Kyoukai - Mirai Fukuin, seeing as Seo Shizune is a new character introduced there. -Azaghal 18:25, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure Miraisi does not exist? because in japanese Wikipedia it clearly describes Seo's ability as Miraisi a.k.a. Future Perceive. 瀬尾晶が初登場する話。未来視(Miraisi)の能力を持つ瀬尾晶は. I also have objection to your way of describing Pure Eyes, as Nasu has never described Miraisi as Pure Eyes. Also NiseShiki's eye was decribed as Pure Eyes somewhere? Well I need a source for that becuase i haven't read that on Tsukihime Dokuhon PlusPeriod.--G.J. 02:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

The basic precept of Magan no Doumei (Mystic Eye Alliance, the story where Fake Shiki is introduced), is that is that the three main characters (Seo, Fake Shiki and Tohno Shiki) all have "special eyes". And since Seo's and Fake Shiki's powers cannot be classified as Mystic Eyes, as it does not grant the power of "interfering with the outside world", by elimination we can only say that they are Pure Eyes.

Both Seo's, fake Shiki, Merca, all they can do is perceive. By definition that is jougan. It's good to have a separate section for Precognition, but have it under Pure Eyes. CanonRap 05:03, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Uhmm well Pure Eyes are known to glow in blue as it has been said on Tsukihime Dokuhon's Mystic Eye entry section, which Seo and Nise Shiki never did. Beside all of you are making assumption that any special eyes that does not fall into Mystic Eye category are Pure Eyes.--G.J. 05:27, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I know that Nasu canonically made jougan blue. But there is absolutely zero reason to assume it's anything other than jougan, because those and magan are the only definition of 'magical eyes' we've ever seen in Nasu's works.

The assumption is not that 'any special eyes not magan are jougan'. It's assuming that 'anything that can see beyond normal perception is jougan', because that's how they've been defined. Magan themselves are more or less jougan that can actually affect something. CanonRap 05:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Then can I please have its source? Where did that definition come from?--G.J. 05:41, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I can only give Jonnobi as a definite source. True, IIRC, jougan have never been used to define anything other than the eyes of the Nanaya, but even then it was specifically the power to 'see what isn't normally possible to see' (opening a channel in your brain, psychic ability, etc.). Now, if Nasu ever comes out and says that there are magical eyes other than jougan and magan, or that jougan are really Nanaya-only, then things would be different.

Actually, I had thought about making a Precognition page after reading Mirai Fukuin (considering the three, four different types there), but I was caught in this exact point - put it under Mystic Eyes, or make it its own article. CanonRap 06:00, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Nasu has never mentioned Seo having Jougan not even in Dokuhon, where everything described and explained by Nasu himself. As long as they are not officially confirmed it would be safe to separate Miraisi and Jougans... was what i was going write until i saw that second line, it would be best if you separated Precognition into its own article.--G.J. 06:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, maybe it would be better to separate Future Perception in a new article, but I don't see much of a point right now. Lets face it: since there is so little that we actually know about it such article would turn out to be less than a stub.

That aside, I kind of have issues in categorizing Seo Akira's and Fake Shiki's powers as Future Perception. Fake Shiki could see memories; even if you say that he is looking into the past that still far from being precognition. Seo Akira had precognitive powers, but it was blatantly said in Magan no Doumei that what she actually is looking to is the past. Her precognition was just a byproduct. Libra00 09:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

But it is considered as Miraisi a.k.a. future perception that is what Nasu said clearly on Dokuhon no matter the method it is still considered as precognition. I understand your logic but I'm actually bringing in an official sources here. By the way I belive it is not the Magan no Doumei it was actually 幻視同盟 Illusion seeing alliance.--G.J. 11:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

For all we know, it could mean that any way of naturally seeing things outside present is considered precognition, be it via eyes or some other magecraft... After all, A rank Clairvoyance is said to grant precognition, among other things (or maybe it's the other way around – precognition is considered A rank Clairvoyance even if it doesn't bring any other benefits like far-sight that are required for lower ranks).
For all the speculation, we are lacking specific information on this issue. I vote we separate Miraisi and Jougan into separate articles and mention in both articles it is not clear whether Future Perception is a sub-type of Pure Eyes or Pure Eyes are just one way to have Future Perception.
Mirror moon translated 幻視同盟 as “Alliance of Illusionary Eyes”, so some of the confusion comes from there... -Azaghal 12:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I moved Precognition into a new Psychic article. It's specifically written in the page that only abilities that are not directly referred to as or explicitly not Mystic Eyes will go there (all magan will stay in the Mystic Eyes page). The psychic abilities of the Demon Hunter families will stay in the Demon Hunter article. CanonRap 06:11, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Pure Eyes

Somehow one part I wrote about Pure Eyes being possessed by by 上人 (Can't find proper tanslation other than saint) is taken out is there any reason to that? It is directly out from Magan's entry within dokuhon's encyclopedia section.--59.24.16.199 12:47, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Look at the article's History tab. CanonRap 13:26, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

what noble colors is shiki eyes of death

189.47.42.148 23:45, April 29, 2014 (UTC)husein dibba1234

Can Mystic Eyes or Pure Eyes be transplanted like regular eyes?

I was wondering if it is possible to transfer someone's Mystic Eyes or Pure to a different individual? I wondered about this since Kirei transplanted Archer's Arm onto Shirou Emiya. I know that transplant went over well because of the 100% compatablity between the donor and recipent in that particular case, but I'm just wondering if its possible to transplant other body parts like Mystic Eyes or Pure Eyes in a similar way.

MathiasDante02 (talk) 01:19, November 10, 2015 (UTC)MathiasDante02

Dude, this is not Naruto. Please.

Areszzjay (talk) 02:47, November 10, 2015 (UTC) areszzjay

Dude, this is Type-Moon, they do transplants of things like Magic Circuits through Magic Crests in Magus families all the time, my question was related to this because of how Mystic Eyes happen when there is some sort of mutation in the Magic Circuits located in the area around one’s eyes or done artificially through a process similar to forging a Magic Crest.

My question was focused more on if it was possible to tranplant the mutated circuits around the eyes that cause the condition could be tranfered to another similar to how they do with Magic Crests?

MathiasDante02 (talk) 06:05, November 11, 2015 (UTC)MathiasDante02

No. As Touko Aozaki said in Kara no Kyoukai ch IV, even if Shiki lost her eyes, she can still sees the line of death because they're connected to her origin, to her self. Shiki's eyes is not a mutation of magic circuit, she had them ever since. It is her nature. The eyes are awakened through Shiki's contact with death.

So if you pluck Shiki's eyes it will become normal eyes. And Shiki can still use her Death Perception.

As for Shiki Tohno, I'm not too sure. It has been too long since I play Tsukihime...

Areszzjay (talk) 10:35, November 11, 2015 (UTC) areszzjay

Per the latest El-Melloi II Case Files it's confirmed that some magi purchase and sell Mystic Eyes for the purposes of transplant. Presumably this works fine as long as the eyes are a mutation of the body, not something like Ryougi Shiki's MEODP which are part of herself, not her eyeballs.

Abearhead (talk) 21:55, September 15, 2016 (UTC)

Fairy Eyes

Speculation: I'm not entirely convinced that the "Mystic Eyes" kind IS different from the ones that fairies have. If we take what Will's are capable of, it's similar in that he can also view "other worlds" by being able to perceive fairies. The wording from FGO makes me wonder if it's just that when the fairies have it, they're not Mystic Eyes per se. --Banksia (talk) 03:54, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Ranking

I've been looking at some Japanese wikis and it seems like "Noble Colors" are actually their own ranking as opposed to the name of the ranking system. Supposedly it goes like: Rainbow > Jewel > Gold > Noble Color > Red/Green/lesser colours. -- Banksia (talk) 01:15, 13 September 2021 (UTC)